TO REQUEST ACCESSIBLE CAPTIONS VISIT GO.OSU.EDU/CCHELP Laura, if you'll start recording. CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPTION. Welcome to the August virtual Q&A. This is part of a larger series, Making Food at Home to Sell. Again, if you're joining us live, welcome. We look forward to having a lively discussion with you after this hopefully short presentation. And if you are looking at the recording on your own, we also welcome you to. And feel free to reach out to us directly if you have any questions that are not answered as part of this Q&A. And really the focus today, this question that we're posing is who can be a home baker or a cottage food producer? And this doesn't mean that you can't ask questions that are outside of that realm, but really that's the question that is steering the educational content today. My name is Nicole. I'm an assistant professor and food safety field specialist with Ohio State University Extension. We also have our whole team here today, which we're thankful for. We have Katie with us. She's actually not at Ohio State anymore, but works at George Washington University. However, we're really excited that she's still able to participate in these events with us because of her experience as an inspector herself. So she previously worked for the Ohio Department of Agriculture. So she has been really, really helpful in helping us to interpret some of the guidelines and rules associated with this type of food production in the home for sale. We also have Emily with us. She is also an assistant professor and is also an educator located in Coshocton County. And another shout out to Laura. She is also working behind the scenes. She is our healthy people specialist, and she really works to help support all of the programs as part of Family and Consumer Sciences that are at least intended to help keep Ohioans healthy and safe. Just as a recap, last month, we really focused on this question of what foods can be produced in a home setting. And some of the content that we'll be discussing today really builds off of that. We can't have too much of a discussion about who can be a home baker or cottage food producer if we don't know first what cottage foods and home bakery products are. So I highly encourage you to go back and watch that first recording. If you are joining us for the first time and don't have the July recording, feel free to reach out to us, and we can provide that to you. In addition to that recording, we provided a lot of resources for people who may want to make food products that don't fall into these categories as well. So that if we can't help you as part of this webinar, as part of this series, we want to make sure that we're connecting you with resources that can help you do what you want to do. With that being said, like I mentioned, after this educational portion, we're going to be opening it up for live discussion if anybody does have questions. And the vast majority of questions that come to us are, can I make this product in my home, yes or no? So what we're going to ask is to give everybody a chance to focus on this content, focusing on the who's. There's a little bit of where here today. And then at the very end, if there's still time left over, which I'm going to assume that there will be, then feel free to shoot us with those. Can I make this? Can I make that question? Questions. And also want to give a plug. We're doing these virtual Q&As pretty regularly, monthly. We do know that October 31 is technically a holiday. We'll be working. Maybe we'll come to the virtual Q&A and some costumes to celebrate ourselves. Katie's looking at me saying, absolutely not. But maybe I will do that. But it's really hard to believe that in a few days it will be September. Certainly doesn't feel that way given this huge heat wave. But as I start to mentally prepare for the fall, the holidays are right around the corner. I mean, I feel like maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. But when it comes to home food production around the holidays, now is not a bad time to start thinking through that. And we have that November 14 virtual Q&A where we will be focusing our content on holiday food production. A friendly reminder, the content that's presented today is specific to the state of Ohio. If you're from a neighboring state or even any other state, you're still very much welcome here on this virtual Q&A. However, I can guarantee you that the requirements for the state of Ohio are going to be different than the state that you reside in. We also want to make a note that the work and the content that's being presented today is on behalf of a USDA food safety outreach program grant. And I mentioned that not only to acknowledge the grant, but because we want to make sure our stakeholders know that we plan to continue to produce materials for this subject area. And our big goal is to end up producing an online self-paced course for home bakery and cottage food operators with information about what you should do if one of the ingredients you use is recalled, with information about what packaging should you use for your food products, et cetera, to answer all those nitty gritty questions that really you can't find the answers to in one single space. So back to our leading question, who can become a home baker or cottage food producer? And Katie is going to be helping me to answer some of the many questions associated with this overarching question. And some of this content was created based upon some of the discussions last time. So it's really helpful to know the questions that you all do have. So first of all, Katie, if folks are worried about whether they own or rent a space, should they be? Does this matter? And also in that same realm of owning versus renting and knowing that people do move, do change housing residences, what would happen if you were all teed up with a license if you're a home baker? Obviously, you don't need to have that license if you're a cottage food producer. And then you move to a new residence. Sure. So to answer the first question, you can own or rent your home, your apartment, whatever it may be. You can own or rent and still have a home bakery license. Again, as Nicole said, you don't have to have a license to be a cottage food producer. What you do need to have is a physical address or a contact information on your labels. That is a requirement, whether it's cottage food or home bakery. And we can get into that in a little bit more detail in later Q&A sessions. But if you move, because it does happen and that's totally understandable, your home bakery license does not follow you. It is at that specific location. Now, with that said, if someone moves into your house and wants to have a home bakery license, they would not have your home bakery license. They would have to still apply for a new inspection. They would still have to apply for a new license. So even though the address on that location would stay the same, the person would obviously be new. So again, if you're doing home bakery and you move, you would just need to call or send in a home bakery request form to ODA, and they'll come out and do a new inspection for you. One thing, again, that we are stating and we'd like everybody to know is that if you do move, make sure that your labels are updated. Should there be a food safety inspection conducted at a farmer's market or wherever you are selling your products and we pick up the label and we see something, or if there's a customer complaint, we need to be able to get a whole review. So, and that's why we need all addresses and all contact information to be updated. So to recap, renting does not prevent you from being a base food producer. If you move, that home bakery license does not follow you. And I thought that this was a really good reminder on Katie's end that if your residence changes, the addresses on your food labels must be updated and you'll need to let ODA know of your move as well. If you want to, I will mention, if you want to continue producing foods, if you just want to let your license expire, that's fine. We're not going to, nobody's going to make you continue producing foods in your new location, but if you choose to continue to produce foods in your new location, just reach out to ODA. And Katie, when we're talking about residence types, we want to acknowledge that where someone lives, what type of housing situation someone is in varies drastically. Some folks might be in shared housing. Some folks might be an apartment, a townhome, a duplex. There's a lot of different situations other than a standing independent home. So does that limit someone from becoming a home-based food producer? No, it definitely does not. It doesn't limit you in any way, shape or form because homes do come in various shapes and capacities. What we do and what we will check for is that you have a kitchen space that has a residential oven and you have to have potable water. So clean water, safe water, for the most part, that comes in the form of city water. You will also, and we've been asked this before, what happens if I have a commercial-grade oven? That's fine as well. What ODA wants, because commercial-grade appliances are becoming more and more popular in residential settings, what we want to see is that you are truly in a resident of some kind, whether it is an apartment, a townhouse, a duplex, that you're not just using a commercial kitchen in a restaurant, but claiming to be a home bakery because there's different regulations and requirements for home bakeries as there are for manufacturing facilities like commercial kitchens in a restaurant or in a manufacturing setting. So that's really what we're looking for on this one. So to clarify, Katie, it's really not about the residence type. You're really looking for very specific components of that residence. So there is a kitchen and within that kitchen space, there is an oven that someone has access to. And we know that you can provide proof that there is clean water within that kitchen space as well. Is that correct? Correct. In the guidance for cottage foods and home bakery operations, it says that only a single kitchen can be utilized. So what happens if in someone's home, I would say they're lucky enough to have multiple kitchens? Does this mean that they can utilize both of those kitchens? Do they have to choose a single kitchen? If so, which kitchen should they choose, et cetera? Does this automatically bump them out if they have multiple kitchens? So again, like Nicole said, if you're fortunate enough to have multiple kitchens, maybe one's in like an in-law suite and one is in your home, you will have to pick one location, one kitchen for a home bakery. Again, cottage foods, there is no inspection that is conducted. So unfortunately, we are, anybody producing home or anybody producing cottage foods, we are hoping that they will uphold the same standards as a home bakery, but it's on a good faith basis. Home bakery inspections, you have to have just a single kitchen space with an oven. And I always like to remind people, your refrigerators and your freezers are included in that as well. So if you have a refrigerator out in your garage, the food in that refrigerator cannot be utilized for your home-based production, your food productions. Everything will have to be in that kitchen area because it will fall under inspection. When we do inspections, your refrigerator will have to have a thermometer in it, which will be getting checked at the time of inspection. So if your refrigerator's in the garage, your garage will tend to be a little bit hotter some days than your kitchen. So the temperature will read potentially a lot higher than it would in your home. So I always remind everybody that yes, it's oven-based, but it's also where is your refrigerator at? Where are your freezers at? Make sure all of that is centrally located because you're gonna ultimately be responsible for cleaning and sanitizing your kitchen area. Whether your kitchen, again, is in your garage and you make it a whole nice big kitchen area in your garage, that space is required to meet sanitation standards. So not just ovens, but think about when, if you do have multiple locations, think about your refrigerator space, where are your utensils kept and things like that. If they're kept in one main kitchen area, that would be the one that I would say have inspected because that's where everything is gonna be stored, kept clean, kept up to sanitized standards. And Katie, can you all participants understand what is the significance behind this, let's call it one kitchen rule on behalf of ODA? Why is this implemented? So, it was, I don't know the basis as to why it was truly implemented, but again, it is going back to, you can't have an oven in your basement and then transport product upstairs to package. I know, so personally, I have backstory as my grandmother had a stove downstairs in her basement, but she also had an oven and a stove upstairs. When you transport that material from upstairs to downstairs, you increase the likelihood of it becoming contaminated, whether it's visible or invisible contamination. So, by keeping it all in the kitchen, you're able to keep it clean and sanitary. You're able to keep more control over what is introduced into that product by keeping it all in one central single location. Thanks, I think that that's helpful for people to have that context. We're more so worried about people transporting foods back and forth and that being a potential food safety risk. Now, you mentioned something about potable water is required to be one of these types of producers and that showing documentation that you have potable water is essential. So, what if a water bill is not in my name? And I always use myself as the example of this. I own half of a duplex and the duplex owner on the other side has the water bill in his name. So, recognizing that there's a lot of different funky setups that could potentially occur, is it okay if the business owner does not have the water bill in their name? Yeah, so absolutely. So, first and foremost, I guess I should also, because I just assume that everybody knows this, but inspectors, they are human, they understand situations are going to be different. We have the regulations and we have the rules and we have the laws that we have to follow, but at the same point in time, we understand that if we walk in and say, hey, are you on City Water? And you can show us a utility bill with the address, but your name's not on it. We understand sometimes things happen. Like it's, you know, sometimes like water bills will be in different names, but as long as the address is the same, we will make the assumption that we are at that location. The City Water is billed for that location. So, therefore, by deductive reasoning, that building has City Water. So, it doesn't necessarily have to be in your name. It could be in your spouse's name, it could be in your grandparent's name, but what we're going to look for is the address to make sure that that is the address that we are currently inspecting, because we have had instances where someone has shown us a City Water bill, but it was not for the address we were at. It was for actually the house that they were renting, which was fine. It all ended up okay, but same situation. We'll make sure the addresses are the same. We'll verify that. And then what we'll look for is, if it is a City Utility bill, we will just check off that say that, that says that it is a City Water facility. So, it's a City Water home or apartment or duplex. And we will know at that point in time that it is meeting safe standards for drinking water and for potable water. If you're on a well, you will have to have a well test conducted to make sure that it is negative and free of any sort of contamination that would deem it unsafe for use or for drinking use. If you have a public water source such as City Water, you will not have to do a water test. We will, that is done at the City level. If you want to, you can always do your own water test. It is not required unless you're on well water. Now for this next one, Katie, I have roommates and parentheses, noting that the term roommates can mean a lot of different things. And I thought that this term was a holistic term to talk about any of the people that could potentially be in your residence that you're using to produce these foods. So, is it okay if I have family members, if I have my spouse in this space with me, if I have kids in this space with me? And also to that point, what if I share the space with non-family members? So truly roommates, whether they're people that I know and interact with, or I know that there's plenty of situations too where you might be living with someone that you don't know as well. Yeah, so again, we are very realistic. A home-based, a home bakery, it is that, it is truly that, it is a home. We're not saying get rid of kids, spouses, any of that by any stretch of the imagination or roommates. I mean, unless you don't like your roommate, then yes, by all means tell them that ODA says no roommates. But what we are saying is that anybody who is sharing that location, whether you know them and your bloodlines with them, or whether they are a stranger that you are just sharing a house with, they need to understand that when you are producing something for cottage food or a home bakery item, you need to maintain sanitation standards. So you still need to have clean utensils. You need to have clean space. You can't have, like in my case, when I'm baking cookies, my kids come through and eat some cookie dough. That's not gonna happen. You know, like that's just not, that can not happen when you are producing products that are gonna be turned around and sold to the public. Along those same lines, anybody that is sharing your space or living with you also needs to understand that the ingredients that you're gonna potentially use need to remain clean. So you can't have chocolate chips with hands that have been in it. You know, you need to make sure that everything is well divided and well understood and established as this is for a home-based operation. This is for my baking, not for produce. So like I said, by all means, please live with your family. Don't shun them. But what we have also advised people that do have family members living with them is potentially make your products when they're not able to come in and disrupt your system and ensure that you can keep things clean by keeping them out. So whether it's while they're at school, while they're sleeping, while they're working, you can work around that if you feel that you can't keep them from contaminating your area and your products. So to reiterate, having other individuals in the home, non-issue, but really it is the business owner's responsibility to set those standards and expectations for everybody else in the home. They can't be aware of them unless you are sharing them and helping them to implement them. Yep. And a lot of it is just really good, safe food handling practices anyway. So if nothing else, just use it as an educational point and tell everybody, you know what, this is what we're gonna do when I'm producing these products. And again, just communicate with them. Now, let me run this scenario by you. What if, let's say a husband and wife or two individuals in any single residence want to have their own separate businesses out of the same residential kitchen? Is that okay? So this one is going to be a tricky one to answer. You cannot have two of either of these. So you can't have two cottage food operations and you can't have two bakery operations because again, it goes back to the address at the location for the home bakery. You can make cottage foods under a different entity at the same location because cottage foods are not regulated. They are not inspected. So again, unless there becomes a customer complaint or a food safety inspection is conducted on one of your final products, you can still produce in that kitchen. One thing to make very clear, if you're going to do a cottage foods and a home bakery, every single ingredient will need to be designated and used separately. So cottage foods in the eyes of ODA, since they're uninspected, we cannot say it was produced in a sanitary manner, everything was kept clean, everything was kept refrigerated under proper temperature. So therefore those products need to have a complete different area of storage, whether it's on a different shelf, whether it's in a different location of the house, those have to be completely separate from your home bakery since that is an inspected product or an inspected ingredient and item. Personal use items also need to be stored and not in a completely separate location as well, but again, they can be stored in a different shelf on a different drawer, in a different drawer than your home bakery items. If you're going to do cottage foods and home bakeries, again, it has to be two different people, you can't have the same person because if you're going to go through and get a home bakery inspection license and get a home license, it'll cover all of your cottage food items anyway, so it won't be needed. You will need to keep records as to what you produced, when you produced it, keep everything clean and separate from cottage foods and home bakeries. And then if an inspection is conducted, so if somebody, if there's a customer complaint and an inspector shows up at your home, you will need to show how you kept all of your products separate in production, how you kept them all clean and sanitized and separated because again, cottage foods doesn't have the inspection process to guarantee and to ensure that it was meeting sanitary standards. To recap, you cannot have two cottage food operations running out of the same kitchen. Similarly, you cannot have two home bakeries functioning out of that same kitchen. There is a scenario where you could potentially have one cottage food operation and one home bakery operation out of the same kitchen, but like Katie mentioned in some of the previous content, you're already having to keep your food business and your personal use separate by adding in another operation, you are having to keep your cottage food operation, home bakery operation and whatever food ingredients, et cetera, for personal use, all separate, all with our own processes and that could create a complex situation. Is it possible? Yes, but just something to consider that it definitely- It's not an easy, so in theory you could have three bags of flour in your home clearly identified but have to be stored in different areas. They could not be stored right next to each other, they would have to have clear separation. So in theory, yes, it could be done. Is it an awful lot of work and an awful lot of paperwork on your end? Absolutely, that's why ODA doesn't really jump up and down and advertise that this could happen because nine times out of 10, there will be some component of human error that will cause contamination or cause an inspection to fail when it comes to that cross-contamination. Last question I have for you, Katie, before we open it up to folks. Do I have to be an Ohio resident to be a home baker or cottage food producer? I'm talking officially, on paper, an Ohio resident. So great question. No, you don't have to. Your location for your kitchen has to be in Ohio but we have given college students home bakery licenses. They've had an apartment. College dorm rooms do not qualify just because they do not, the ownership and the address of the location would not match the university. So universities typically have one address and it's their main campus address. The location of your dorm room is completely different and you usually don't get your mail there. If you have a stove in your dorm room, great. That dorm rooms, we typically will not license just because it is not owned by an entity that we could easily trace back to. Plus at the end of the year, you would have to update all of your information anyway because you no longer technically own that dorm room, the university does. And it goes back to their ownership. So it's kind of a pain to do a dorm room. That's why we don't do them for numerous other reasons as well. But if you are a college student or let's just say you're here in Ohio for a year and you don't wanna transfer all of your licenses and things like that over, you don't have to as long as your physical location and your physical kitchen is in Ohio. And again, same thing, cottage foods, your address will have to indicate that you are in Ohio. And if we need to go and find you for any sort of questions, any sort of reason, we need to be able to track down where you're at and where you're producing the food and it needs to be in Ohio. So long, you do not have to have Ohio residency but your address for sure has to be in Ohio. Well, thanks Katie for helping to address those many in the weeds questions. And those who are on here, I hope that that was helpful for you and can help guide our conversation. Laura has put her email address in the chat. I've also included my email address on this page in case you need to, again, ask us any specific questions about cottage food items, home bakery items, or if you're missing a recording and would like to receive those. So at this time, we're gonna stop the recording, take a pause.